This interview was originally recorded on February 24, 2023, as part of Leoni Consulting Group’s All Things Marketing and Education Podcast.
Access this episode's show notes, including links to the audio, a summary, and helpful resources.
Elana Leoni:
Hello and welcome to All Things Marketing and Education. My name is Elana Leoni, and I've devoted my career to helping education brands build their brand awareness and engagement. Each week, I sit down with educators, edtech entrepreneurs, and experts in educational marketing and community building. All of them will share their successes and failures using social media, inbound marketing or content marketing, and community building. I'm excited to guide you on your journey to transform your marketing efforts into something that provides consistent value and ultimately improves the lives of your audience.
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of All Things Marketing and Education. This week I am sitting down with Thomas Rodgers. He is the Vice President and Head of K-12 Communications at Whiteboard Advisors. And he'll talk a little bit more about what Whiteboard Advisors is because I don't feel like I can do you justice, you all do so much. But LCG and Whiteboard Advisors share a lot of clients together. And what I can tell you is they handle PR comm strategy, policy, and so much more for K-12 education and a lot of actual other education verticals.
I'm excited to chat with Thomas because you are all about K-12 education. He heads that division. He helps get to see vantage points of so many different clients within edtech, and that has accelerated my game or just my perception of what's going on in K-12. Because if you're just in one brand, which is great, you can go deep, but if you work with so many brands across the spectrum, you start to have a higher vantage point and see trends. So I am excited to kind of pick his brain around that.
Today, we will be talking about all things edtech, but specifically we'll be talking about how edtech companies can work with media, so what works, what doesn't, and kind of all that good stuff in between. And since it's conference season, we'll also hit on how do you pitch to conferences? How do you make sure that next year you are highlighted in panels and your name is out there beyond just the regular rigamarole of things?
But before we get into those topics, let me give you a brief background around Thomas. So like I said, Thomas heads K-12 education over at Whiteboard Advisors, but what he does there is he advises organizations and entrepreneurs how to leverage earned media. So we'll talk about that difference a little later on too. But how to leverage earned media, brand storytelling, and influencer engagement all to advance your mission. So he's a trusted advisors to editors and reporters at national outlets, and we're going to talk a little bit about the power of relationships around all of that too and specifically covering PK through 12 education and learning space.
So thank you so much, Thomas. I'm so excited to pick your brain and share your wisdom with others here.
Thomas Rodgers:
Thank you so much for having me, and thank you for that wonderful introduction. It's great to be here and to talk all things K-12 media.
Elana Leoni:
Yes, let's get into it. So I tried to summarize, probably did it in a butchery way, of what you do and what Whiteboard does, but can you just tell people about your role and your vantage point and how you work typically with companies in K-12 education?
Thomas Rodgers:
Absolutely. So Whiteboard Advisors is a consulting firm that focuses almost exclusively on the education space and other social impact areas, but education is really one of our sweet spots. It's something we've been doing for a long time. I've been with Whiteboard for more than six years now. Came from an education nonprofit working on the ground in Louisiana to join our comms team. Back then we were a much smaller organization and have really grown over the years and built out a great team that's working across the areas of research, advocacy, sales enablement, and communications.
And so I specifically lead our K-12 communications team working with clients to develop media strategies for, it could be a new product announcement, a research release, or just general brand-building and awareness campaigns.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah. See, that's a lot. I was like, "Okay, what, research, you're in advocacy." There's a lot to unpack within all that, and I know we're going to get started with that. But maybe before we get into all things PR, I'd love to get your pulse on just, we're kind of in the thick of Q1. Q1's almost kind of ending-ish in this crazy year of 2023 where I feel like every year in edtech we're like, "What's this year going to unfold? What's going to happen?" And we have this looming recession. There's weird funds swirling with different data. What are some trends you'd like to highlight of just might be interesting for our audience of edtech professionals and educators?
Thomas Rodgers:
Yeah. And what immediately comes to mind is a conversation I was having last week with an education reporter who has probably close to two decades of experience covering the education space from federal policy to learning environments and edtech. And what she said to me has really stuck out.
At the beginning of the pandemic, I've done a lot of media analysis on different media, we saw a big surge in the coverage of edtech, whether it was about data privacy, data security, just the use of devices. The coverage levels of education technology in both mainstream and trade levels has normalized back to pre-pandemic levels. The difference is, and this is what she noted and it also mirrors what I've heard from district leaders, education technology is no longer like a siloed beat. Education technology is part of the assessment beat. It's part of the curriculum beat. It's part of the student wellness beat.
And when we talked to district leaders a few weeks ago, my colleague Anna did a webinar with district leaders from LAUSD, Houston ISD, and Orange County Public Schools. And they were all talking about how they're leveraging technology across different areas in completely new ways thanks largely because of the influx of ESSER funds. But it's helped them unlock learning acceleration programs and really push their thinking about the promise of technology and education in ways that I think we heard inklings of before but the pandemic really accelerated.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah. And I was head nodding because I feel like when we talk about technology, for so long we've been thinking about technology integration. And coming from the George Lucas Educational Foundation, that was something that George was really passionate about is tech integration. But it's not just tech like, okay, siloed, like you said, and oh, shiny object tech syndrome. It was how do we integrate it fully? And it's really great to hear you say that it's fully integrated and that's how reporters are covering it now too. So yes, took a pandemic to do it, right?
Thomas Rodgers:
Took a pandemic, but I think we're in a much better place because, again, we're no longer thinking about edtech as this add-on or standalone. We're thinking about how is technology really being used in all parts of education, whether that's relationship-building tools between students and teachers or supplemental curriculum that's being added.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good trend because one of the guests I had on, I think it was Tony Wan from Reach Capital and he was talking about a little bit of a tech bloat where a lot of districts are now looking at, okay, I got this tech stack of so many different things, how can I make sure that we have the right tools, but potentially not so many and consolidate it because it gets overwhelming too? So that was an interesting trend. But if you start maybe adding it to your trend is that maybe we have a lot more tech because it's actually being integrated in ways that we never thought before and it's not a bloat. And they might find that, who knows?
Thomas Rodgers:
Yeah. Thinking about conversations I've had with some edtech companies and thinking about Clever specifically, which is a single sign-on tool that districts use. They did a survey of educators and found that educators want some voice and choice in the types of tools that are being used. I think to your point, during the pandemic, we did see a big influx. I've seen data that suggests over 1,100 different edtech tools are being used in some districts every month. And we are starting to see districts try and not crack down, but really hone in on what's working, what's being used, and how they can deploy that. But we have continued to see teachers express that desire to... A teacher in one school might want to use BrainPOP, but it might not be something that the district wants to roll out fully across the district. And so how do the districts balance that demand from a teacher and be responsive for something they want to integrate into their instructional practice?
Elana Leoni:
Yeah, that's so important. I think sometimes I hear some studies say that educators that are the actual users of the products have no voice. And some studies say they have all this voice. And I think there is going to be this, hopefully, beautiful middle ground where there is educator input because that's where the system fundamentally breaks down. And if you're an edtech company, how are you going to renew things if your users are not using them because the district created and said, "We're going to use this tool"? And no one likes it. And so they don't renew. So it's this vicious cycle. So I'm glad you mentioned that. And the number of tech tools, would you say 1,100?
Thomas Rodgers:
I think that was the latest report I saw.
Elana Leoni:
That's crazy. That blew my mind.
Thomas Rodgers:
Yeah, I mean, it's crazy to think about just how many different tools are out there. And I felt like during the pandemic, we were seeing new tools pop up for this. I do think districts and their attempt to limit the number of apps, it's not limiting what teachers can do. I think there's a sincere concern about how they can make sure student data is being protected and also how they can implement tools with fidelity that have the largest impact.
There's definitely been a movement. Think about the evidence behind certain edtech implementations. Tara Garcia Mathewson at Hechinger Report has done a lot of reporting on that topic and how districts can look into the evidence behind certain edtech. There's the EdTech Evidence Exchange, which is now part of InnovateEDU, which has their EdTech Genome Project, which I encourage folks to check out. It has a lot of information from their work with schools and districts to understand what goes into the selection of edtech and how folks can make good decisions.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah. And so part of me is making me think if we are consolidating edtech, say in a general sense, most people would agree the way that they choose the edtech, that the tools that they say is around fidelity and the ones that actually can prove that they can map to student learning outcomes. So we're going to see that trend, but at the same time, we might see in the edtech industry companies acquiring other companies to consolidate and make their tools more robust too.
So I don't know, we're talking so much on this. I hope people are finding this helpful. Why don't we actually get into the PR comms, because I know we're excited to get into that and really pick your expertise around that? So let's start with some terms in the PR world, earned and unearned media. Let's talk about the difference between the two. So we get our foundation, we get our defense and our basketball and we can keep going.
Thomas Rodgers:
Yeah. So the way I like to think about earned media, those are the stories that you are proactively pitching to reporters. You're reaching out to Alyson Klein at Education Week and telling her, "Here's this great thing going on. Are you interested in learning more?"
When you think about other types of media, unearned, which I more commonly call contributed content. I guess there's two buckets, contributed content and paid media. So contributed content can look like things where one of your corporate leaders is writing an op-ed for an outlet and submitting it. It could affect also paid media where you're doing sponsored posts with an outlet. We're increasingly seeing a number of education trades and mainstream outlets do those brand partnerships to push content out as well. It can be written content, it can be video content, all types of things.
Elana Leoni:
And this may be a stupid question because this isn't my expertise, but when it comes to unearned media, do you ever just see random articles written by a company without them poking or prodding? Does that ever happen and would that be considered unearned?
Thomas Rodgers:
Well, so we'll see companies put out press releases, and sometimes those will get republished as is. Some outlets will charge to republish them, others will just pull them off a wire service, like PR Newswire or Business Wire, and post them in full so they have content on their website.
Elana Leoni:
Okay. So the unicorn I'm thinking of probably doesn't exist, but I'm doing great things at an edtech company and somebody's going to notice and write a story without me reaching out, without any relationships.
Thomas Rodgers:
Well, that does happen. That does happen. Education reporters are always reaching out to schools and doing their own research and finding those stories. And sometimes you'll get the outreach that's like, "Hey, I was talking to this teacher in X District and they mentioned they're using your product. Can you tell me more about it and get those mentions?" It does happen.
The Education Writers Association, which is the Professional Development Association for Education Journalists, every few years they'll do a survey of education reporters. And the survey always reveals sort of a love-hate relationship between PR folks like myself and education reporters where reporters feel like they prefer to do their own reporting, but PR people can make it easier for them or highlight things that they might not have known about.
But you have to make sure with PR people, when you're in that role with a reporter, that you're being helpful and not trying to sell them something or being too marketing-focused because that comes across as inauthentic. And at some point, if you're sending an email to a reporter three times a week about the same thing and it's just not a fit for them, they're going to stop opening your emails. And that really hurts relationship.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah. And I love it because there's so much parallel between the two worlds. So in the world of organic social media and community, we really talk about how can we be as authentic as possible. And you don't talk at them, you really talk with them and you lead with value. And if it doesn't pass the test of is this valuable to them or timely and relevant to them, you don't just randomly push something out at them. And it's not like this jazz hands type of copy, like [inaudible 00:15:41], right?
Thomas Rodgers:
It has to be an authentic engagement. It has to be at the right time. I've talked to reporters who there might be a story that they'll write about in July that would never get coverage in October just because how the number of stories that are coming out in the fall, the amount of source material they have in the summer is sometimes less. And so that can often be a time to put out a story that might not normally get coverage.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah, that's a really good point. Are there times in the year that you feel like are less coverage and you have more of a chance for coverage? I mean, it really depends on what's going on in the world too.
Thomas Rodgers:
You have to think a lot about what's going on in the world, and there's always the unexpected thing. If you would've asked me in November if I thought that I was going to spend several hours a week for January and February talking to reporters about the role of AI in education, I would have been like, "No, that's sort of a niche story. There are few reporters interested in that." And I feel like every education outlet and every education mainstream reporter has done a story on AI in education in the past two months, whether that was strictly focused on ChatGPT or looking more broadly at how organizations like Code.org and ISTE are promoting coding curriculum, or sorry, promoting AI curriculum and professional development to educators.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah. That blew up. And those trends, you can't really, I mean, sure that's been a growing-ish trend, but like you said, I never would've, it just blew up. And if you weren't talking about it, you weren't relevant and everyone needed to have an article about it and an opinion about it, like, "Okay."
Thomas Rodgers:
One of my favorite resources is the content marketing calendar that your team puts together every year. I'm constantly sharing that with clients because it's highlighting the conferences that are happening, but also just other natural media points, whether that's Teacher Appreciation Month or SXSW EDU, in thinking about where reporters are going to be at that time and connecting your stories and pitches to those natural moments.
So for our Black History Month, pitching stories around content and how if you have a customer who's using your content to teach about Black History Month in their classrooms, connecting reporters with those educators can be extremely valuable.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah. And thank you for the shout-out. We'll put the link to the planner in the show notes, everyone. But you can also just Google EdTech Marketers Planner.
So in social media, depending on the channel, it can be real time where we're talking about Black History Month, or Pinterest, we actually do it three months prior. But what's the lead time with if you're trying to get something in the hands of a reporter, when do you want to pitch Black History for them to actually launch it in February?
Thomas Rodgers:
[inaudible 00:18:52] in your target. So a lot of education trades, the reporters there might be writing eight to 10 stories a month. So they're turning through content quickly. Reporters at national outlets might publish one or two stories a month depending on how big those stories are going. I would say with the stories hooked to Black History Month, that's definitely more of an education trade story versus a Wall Street Journal or Washington Post article. So you also have to think about that. Look at what the reporters are writing, look at the types of stories they've written over the past year before you pitch them so that you really have an understanding for what they're interested in.
Elana Leoni:
So good. I'm just picking all of the goodness out of your brain. I'm like, "What's the lead time? What do you do?" Go ahead.
Thomas Rodgers:
Hack for thinking about what reporters might be interested in is looking to see if outlets have editorial calendars. Usually, that's tied to advertising, but occasionally it'll show that this outlet is going to be doing a special report on, EdWeek in April is publishing their tech counts, which is a special program edtech. So you know that their reporters are going to be writing stories for that special report because the advertising department has made this calendar available to you. So you can always check that. With those pre-planned reports, it's usually a month or two. So I've talked to the EdWeek team, and right here in February, they're trying to finish up some of those tech count stories so that they're ready to go because that'll be published in April.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah. And those media or editorial calendars are gold for so many reasons. Because you know that in some way they will be covering it and focusing it on it, so it's not even just media that you can bandwagon on and say, "Okay, they're going to be covering it, more than likely they'll be looking out for stories like this." But you know that in general, the audience will too.
Thomas Rodgers:
And editorial calendars weren't created in a haphazard way. EdWeek has 40-plus years of experience knowing what content is relevant to educators when.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah, I remember it being something I would look from afar at Edutopia and they would create this editorial calendar and it would take a lot of stakeholders involved and they'd invite me into it as well. But I'm like, "I'm glad this isn't my job," because it was a lot. It was a lot that goes into it.
Thomas Rodgers:
You're sort of predicting what might be important in six to eight months. And I think that can be hard. So we do see editorial calendars change.
Elana Leoni:
Yes. So if I am beginning to prioritize PR, maybe I'm a new company in education technology or I just haven't really prioritized it, I'm medium size, how do I even get started in this endeavor? Because it feels like you need lots of industry connections and you need to at least know what you're doing in terms of a pitch.
Thomas Rodgers:
When you first think about it, it can be overwhelming. And it shouldn't be. I think the biggest piece of advice I have for anyone thinking about how do you start an earned media program or campaign is what audience do you want to reach? And I'm sure that's the same exercise you go through with folks when you're planning a social media calendar, who are you trying to reach? Because different outlets have different audiences.
If you're trying to reach an investor audience, TechCrunch, Business Insider, The Information, EdWeek Market Brief, those are more of the outlets that you want to go to. If you're trying to reach a classroom teacher, maybe Education Week, EdSurge, or The 74. If you're trying to reach district administrators, do you go to District Administration Magazine? Do you go to Hechinger Report?
Granted, all of those outlets have overlap, but they do have key audiences that they're reaching for and those are who the reporters are writing for. And you have to keep that in mind. The story you pitch about your Series A or Series B, Education Week's probably not going to write about that. EdWeek Market Brief might. EdSurge might. But that's a TechCrunch story, that's a Business Insider story, not a Hechinger Report story.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah. Okay. So we identified the outlets based on your primary target audience. How do I talk to them? How do I find information to give them? And what is it that they're mostly looking for?
Thomas Rodgers:
Read as much of their coverage as you can. Check their Twitter account, see what they're tweeting about, what they're writing about, and what they're writing style is.
If you're a company that focuses on student wellness and you've got a great district partner in North Carolina and you want to tell that story, you're not going to pitch to Federal Policy Reporter. And so make sure you're finding the reporter who's writing about student wellness and understanding, okay, are they talking about companies in the space? Who do they want to interview? Are they interviewing my competitors? Are they interviewing customers who might mention a product? And so doing that type of research can really pay dividends when you're thinking about how you approach folks.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah. And I've noticed, especially on Twitter, because that's where I hang most of the times when I'm thinking about reporters and some district admin folk, but specifically reporters. We'll drop some links in the show notes because I've created some Twitter lists of education reporters and I think you all have too. So I'll put those in the show notes for people.
But me and you before this show were talking about the power of relationships with reporters and you've kept saying over and over again even now is listen to them, read their stuff, be aware. And the best way to do it is really give them a little signal that you're reading it, like their stuff, respond in an authentic way. And most reporters I see on Twitter say DM's open. And sometimes they'll even ask for stories on Twitter, which is gold.
Thomas Rodgers:
Reporters will post, "I'm looking for an educator to talk about this." "I'm looking for experts on this topic. DM me with information." Take advantage of those opportunities because they're legitimately looking for new people to talk to. And it might not be that they talk to you immediately for that story they're working on. And sometimes it's hard to believe, reporters keep those things on file and follow back up.
I one time had, and I think this is still the record for longest initial pitch to publication of a story, I had a reporter follow up and publish into a story on something I pitched them 18 months prior. And it turned out to be an amazing story. But it was an ongoing conversation of just short, quick, thoughtful updates about what they were covering in the news that I was pitching them. And it paid off in a great story for a client and their district partner.
Elana Leoni:
That's awesome.
Thomas Rodgers:
But it took me 18 months.
Elana Leoni:
So we've thought about it strategically, but we've identified the outlet, we've listened to them, and we've given them something that we think might align with their values or might be timely. And you said don't bug them to death, don't keep following up on them and things like that. But is that a good thing for a new company is like, let's just start there and get your basics down? Is that kind of the general advice? Okay.
Thomas Rodgers:
Yes. Get your basics down. Do an introductory conversations. I always tell our team I don't want your first interaction with a reporter to be you asking them to do something for you. Think about what you can offer them, whether that's access to an expert on a topic they're interested in, access to new, exciting data. Really think about what will make the most impact for them and make their life easier. We have to remember that reporters are people too. They're juggling kids, work, families and pets, and everything that everyone else is doing. And for so many of them, their day-to-day looks completely different than it did three years ago, just like it does for us.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah, really important. I think we've already talked a little bit about what's working, some best practices. I think sometimes when we are talking about pitching, we talk about standing out from the noise and everything else going on. But are there things, best practices you'd recommend that you haven't talked about already for somebody venturing in the space or even some veterans that need to be reminded of some best practices?
Thomas Rodgers:
Yeah. I think the most important thing that folks can do is be authentic. Don't be salesy. Don't ambulance chase stories because something was in the news and you think your tool is the solution, particularly around any type of tragedy. Unfortunately in education, we see too many school shootings. And I always hear from reporters of the day after a school shooting, they might get all of these things about how X product could prevent the next school shooting. And that's just never something you want to do in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah, that's the big one. I mean, you never, gosh, I don't have words for that one. I know that it sometimes comes from a place of compassion and they want to help, but you never want to be able to capitalize on tragedy like that. There is a line drawn.
Thomas Rodgers:
Yeah. Another suggestion is never overlook the local reporters at outlets. I think about Trish Crain at alabama.com, Maureen Downey at the Atlanta Journal Constitution, both amazing local education reporters who tell great stories about what's going on in their communities. And so don't overlook them because it's a smaller outlet. We see those stories get picked up and syndicate and also it's still great collateral to share on your channels regardless of the outlet.
Elana Leoni:
Do you see some edtech companies that maybe even work with you because they want to get a little more strategic, say, "Hey, we're trying to get into Texas, California and New York, so can you help us with local coverage?" Is that usually a strategy?
Thomas Rodgers:
All the time.
Elana Leoni:
Okay.
Thomas Rodgers:
All the time. And a lot of that, we want to look at clients to see where their lighthouse districts are. So what are the districts that you're most proud of, the ones that you're writing case studies for, and how can we get coverage in those local newspapers, whether it's the Denton Chronicle, the Dallas Morning News.
One of my favorite stories that I've done in the six years at Whiteboard was a story in the Yakima Herald, in the Yakima Valley of Washington state, talking about the need for computer science in the fruit education and how it affects the fruit industry, which is really big there. And that remains one of my favorite stories that I've done in a relatively small, local newspaper, but the story that got a lot of traction in the state of Washington for a client focused or computer science ed.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah. And super unique. That probably had not been done before. And I would be interested in that because I've never even heard of that. Right?
Thomas Rodgers:
Yeah. I will say my one disclaimer, if you're pitching your school district clients out, check with the school district before you offer to connect them with reporters. Every school district is different in how they handle media requests. Some will want to be involved, some will be super hands off, but you don't want to hurt your credibility with a reporter by telling them that you can get them an interview with this school district and then the school district comms people are like, "Oh no, we're not go going to do that type of media."
Elana Leoni:
Yeah, really important. Really important.
Thomas Rodgers:
[inaudible 00:31:37] have policies about not doing earned media around a specific product. It's rare that we see that. But there are those policies out there. There are two great conferences that are definitely outside the mainstream, but the Council of Great City Schools, which is the largest urban districts in the US, and then the National School Public Relations Conference where you get to meet all of those district folks that work in comms every day and understand everything they're doing, but also build relationships with the PR folks in your district, your district customers that can help you tell your story.
Elana Leoni:
So you mentioned conferences, let's go there.
Thomas Rodgers:
Yes.
Elana Leoni:
It is conference season. And sometimes I look at the lineup of all the panels and I have been a judge and I look and I get, "Gosh, how did they get on there?" Especially something like SXSW EDU, because it's a mix of judges and then popular vote and whatnot.
But I know that your team does a lot of pitches out there for lots of conferences and panels. And I always talk with my companies and say, "How can we get you more into creating value and contributing to the space in not just a product marketing way?" Because you started this company more than just a passion about your product. It's about your topic and helping elevate that. So how do you, gosh, that's a whole question hour long, but maybe some tips on just how do I pitch for conferences to get on panels and some success?
Thomas Rodgers:
Conference proposals, that takes up a lot of time for our team every year. And it's a very rewarding part of the work that we get to do. You mentioned SXSW EDU, that's a big one. I'll be heading there in a few weeks myself to moderate a panel. Our team submits 50 to 60 proposals to the SXSW EDU team every year. And I would say we have a pretty good record. About 50% of our proposals are accepted, which is still a hefty number of panels. And we see that across other conferences, ISTE, FETC, ASA.
With every client, we sit down and build out a conference target calendar. You mentioned earlier, if a company wants to go into a specific state, Texas has TCEA, they have their superintendents conferences, and every one of those conferences puts out a call for proposals almost. And so we build out our list of conference proposal deadlines, when the conference is, and what the requirements are. And I think the biggest distinction in what panels get accepted and which ones get rejected are making sure it's not a sales pitch.
The best panel proposals are ones that don't mention a product name. They're about an important topic, whether that's high-impact tutoring and you're hearing from different high-impact tutoring providers, whether that's the panel that I'm moderating is on how edtech is serving students with special needs. And we have three district leaders talking about their experiences. The panel description has no products mentioned in it. Will products come up? Yes. And those district leaders, we were connected to them through some of our clients, but we found a topic that has broad relevance and put together a panel proposal that was about a trend in education, not a come learn how X product works.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah. And I'm just reflecting because for the first time ever, I was a ISTE judge last year for the Makerspace vertical. And it was so fascinating to see because on the other side, going to edtech conferences for decades now, I tend to see some of the same companies being mentioned, I tend to see some of the same influencers that have panels and I'm like, "Gosh, how do they do it?" And then when I got on the back end of it, I knew how they did it because their proposals were, they were so much more comprehensive. And like you said, pay attention to the specific things they are looking for because judges have a rubric that they grade you on.
Thomas Rodgers:
There's a rubric for everyone that they're grading on. Uniqueness, don't submit the same proposal year over year. If it got accepted one year, it's not going to get accepted the next year. If it got rejected one year, it probably won't get accepted the next year either. Go back and revisit those. Always think about the learning objectives.
I think the SXSW EDU proposal, I have a lot of thoughts on their template. I love Ron and the team at SX. And I'm always frustrated when it's, how do we get it done to 500 characters, which is not a lot of space. But one thing that they do really well is they require you to put in three learning objectives. And so when those panelists come, what are they going to walk away with? And that really forces you to think about the panel and the discussion beyond just a title and a short description. And I always push our team even for our conferences that don't require those learning objectives to write those out in the panel planning process so that they can build a more robust panel.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah, I love that too because it helps. It reminds me, what is it, Hemingway or something that said, "I would've written a shorter letter, but I didn't have time." Was that Twain? Twain. Right. But it kind of reminds me of that. It's like backwards planning your conference pitch. What do we ultimately want to walk away with, the learning objectives? Is it backed by research? That could be really helpful. Is it unique research? It's all of those things. But it's very hard now that I've seen the backend of what gets submitted.
Thomas Rodgers:
Right. It's competitive. And another thing I'll say, a lot of these conferences, nearly all of them sell sponsored panels. And so if they see things that are too promotional, those should be a sponsored panel. They don't want their attendees sitting in an advertisement for 60 minutes for your product. So you have to make sure that even once you get accepted in there, if you get up there and pitch your product and make it an advertorial panel, that's going to hurt your chances of getting invited back in the future.
Elana Leoni:
Yes. So recapping this conversation around conference success with panel-pitching would be starting early. You said you get your ducks in the row and really look at what are submissions deadlines, you have a Google Doc, and making sure it aligns with what the client really wants. Is it important for them to be at SXSW EDU? Does it align with their buyers and decision-makers and their users? That's really important. But then it's like, "Okay, what are they actually looking for in a pitch?" And really paying attention to that and not just overlooking it and backwards planning with learning objectives. Did I miss anything else?
Thomas Rodgers:
No. I think a key theme of our conversation today has been being authentic and whether that's when you're talking to reporters, putting in event proposals, authenticity is key in that.
Elana Leoni:
Yes. And don't be afraid to get a little bit, not weird, but different because we don't like hearing the same things over and over again. And I want to go to that panel that you're doing at SXSW EDU because I actually haven't heard that very much. So it's important to think about what's been done and get a little unique. I think that goes along with authenticity.
Thomas Rodgers:
And don't overlook the small conferences either. Depending on who your target audience is, they can be just as valuable as the big conferences. If you're trying to reach science teachers in California, maybe the California Science Teachers Association Conference is the one for you. And that might be more beneficial than doing a big activation at the National Science Teachers Association, which this year it's in Georgia, and how many science teachers are going to be able to make it from California to Georgia for that conference. So take it to the conference in their backyard.
Elana Leoni:
Really good point. I'm learning so much for stuff that I'm not an expert in. I just ask and give you all these pointed questions like, "Is it like this?" So I appreciate you just kind of going off the cuff with me. But I know we could talk about this for hours and hours more. Our audience would love to have you back and listen more around earned, unearned media, some best practices because it is changing all the time. That's probably what you love about your job, right? It's like you have some fundamentals, but no one could expect a pandemic or all of the things we're dealing with in the world of education technology now.
So with that said, I'd love to be able to end with a question that we ask all of our audience, and it's around inspiration because we love the world that we work in with education. It's so mission-driven. It gives me goosebumps when I think about the educators on the frontlines doing the work all of the time and the passionate people behind edtech. But it can be really draining. It can be don't talk to me draining, right?
So how do you, after a long day, maybe you had all your pitches rejected in a bad way, which probably doesn't happen to you, but what do you do to refuel and recharge so you can get going the next day?
Thomas Rodgers:
One of the most inspiring things for me and one of the, I would say my favorite parts of the jobs is when I get to actually talk to educators and visit the classrooms. And so I still to this day love joining educator interviews and talking to the customers of our clients and hearing how they're using products. And we're finally getting to go back on school visits. I was just in New York a few weeks ago visiting the High School for Fashion Industries to take a reporter to see a high-impact tutoring classroom. And just the energy of being in schools. And so I think those are the things that definitely inspire me.
I'm really excited to be hitting the conference trail in the next few weeks and getting back out there and just having those in-person interactions with educators and just other people working in the space, the folks working at think tanks and amazing nonprofits and hearing about their work. That in-person interaction is what really recharges my batteries and gets me ready to pitch the next wave of stories.
I do tell people that when you work in PR, you get really desensitized to rejection. You get used to just getting rejected by reporters. Even if you're the best PR person in the world, you're going to have those days where it seems like none of your pitches are landing. But if you filter an authentic relationship with the reporters, they're not just going to ignore you. They're going to to be like, "Oh... They'll tell you why they can't write about that story. They'll take the time to give you the feedback that'll make your next pitch better.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah. And if you're listening to them and you potentially over time are forming a relationship with them, I know when you're talking, you come with a lens of empathy. You're like, "These are parents. They might be on spring break with their kids at home and they don't have time to respond to your email." You would know that if you started to create a relationship and you listen to them over time. So that can help a little bit with rejection, I would hope.
Thomas Rodgers:
How can you make their job easy for them? I think that's the question you have to ask yourself.
Elana Leoni:
Yes. Well, awesome. Thank you so much, Thomas, for joining and letting me just pick your brain in all sorts of ways. I hope the audience that you're listening right now are able to say, "Wow, I had no idea even this world of PR," if you're new, "and I learned a couple of things of best practices. When I'm ready to jump in, I can do that." And if you're already in it, think to yourself, am I doing some of those things that Thomas said don't do? Maybe have a little Thomas on your shoulder and say, "Don't do that. Don't be that annoying person. Listen to them on Twitter." So I hope you were able to either affirm what you're doing or refine what you're doing as well as you're thinking about your relationship.
So Thomas, how can people get in touch with you and your team at Whiteboard Advisors?
Thomas Rodgers:
Yeah, the easiest way to get in touch with us is through our website. All of our email addresses are on there. I'm thomas@whiteboardadvisors.com. You can also send me a tweet. I'm fairly reachable. All my contact information's on the Whiteboard website. And so I look forward to connecting with folks. One other thing I'll plug. In April, I'm going to host a webinar with a few K-12 education journalists talking about what trends they're seeing and looking at some new data. And so I can share the link for the follow-up notes so that you can share that.
Elana Leoni:
Yeah. So we will be putting everything Thomas talked about in terms of show notes. So in the beginning, you were throwing out some great resources for data and all of the things. We will put it in the show notes for everyone trying to scroll or maybe you were running or in the car. We understand that. That's why we do the show notes. So our show notes include helpful resources, a little recap of the conversation, a transcript. If you're like me, I just sometimes like to read rather than listen too. So all of the things will be in our show notes and those are located at leoniconsultinggroup.com. So that's leoniconsultinggroup.com/47, so it's the number 47, for detailed notes and all the things too.
So thank you very much, Thomas. And thank you all for listening. I don't take it for granted that you have so many options. I know this is a bit of a Southwest plug, but it feels like there's so many podcasts in education and when people reach out to me and say, "I loved your episode," it makes me smile. So I appreciate everyone listening and we will see you all next time on All Things Marketing and Education. Take care.
Thanks so much for listening to this week's episode. If you liked what you heard and want to dive deeper, you can visit leoniconsultinggroup.com/podcast for all show notes, links, and freebies mentioned in each episode. And we always love friends. So please connect with us on Twitter @LeoniGroup. If you enjoyed today's show, go ahead and click the subscribe button to be the first one notified when our next episode is released. We'll see you next week on All Things Marketing and Education.
Elana Leoni, Host
Elana Leoni has dedicated the majority of her career to improving K-12 education. Prior to founding LCG, she spent eight years leading the marketing and community strategy for the George Lucas Educational Foundation, where she grew Edutopia’s social media presence exponentially to reach over 20 million education change-makers every month.
Thomas Rodgers, Guest
An experienced communications strategist, Thomas advises innovative organizations and entrepreneurs on how multi-dimensional campaigns leverage earned media, brand storytelling, and influencer engagement to advance their missions. He is a trusted advisor to editors and reporters at national outlets and trade publications that cover the PK-12 education and learning space.
Prior to joining Whiteboard, Thomas led communications for a K-12 education nonprofit in Louisiana, where he was responsible for ensuring the organization’s media and engagement strategies advanced its education initiatives at the state and local level. He previously worked on the communications and marketing team for the Vice President of Student Affairs at Louisiana State University and completed a policy and management fellowship at the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
About All Things Marketing and Education
What if marketing was judged solely by the level of value it brings to its audience? Welcome to All Things Marketing and Education, a podcast that lives at the intersection of marketing and you guessed it, education. Each week, Elana Leoni, CEO of Leoni Consulting Group, highlights innovative social media marketing, community-building, and content marketing strategies that can significantly increase brand awareness, engagement, and revenue.
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