This interview was originally recorded on [date], as part of Leoni Consulting Group’s All Things Marketing and Education Podcast.
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[Start of recorded material 00:00:01
Elana:
Hello, everyone. And welcome to another episode of All Things Marketing and Education. This week I am sitting down with Sam Seidel, the K-12 lab director of strategy and research at the Stanford d.school, and he's recently a co-author of Creative Hustle: Blaze Your Own Path and Make Work That Matters. I am so excited to talk to him, because it's so much aligns with what we do at LCG. We help brands matter to their target audience of educators, administrators, and parents. And we're just big believers in work that matters. Do things that fuel you.
Sam, as I do with some of my guests, I go back to Twitter and see when we first met. Because I said, "Gosh, it's been a minute since me and you connected." I followed you and go, "God, this guy is doing a lot." But according to Twitter, we first met in person when you came to Skywalker Ranch when I was working at Edutopia in 2014.
Sam:
That's right.
Elana:
You tweeted out a picture with you behind the Yoda statue, and we exchanged, "It was nice to meet you," tweets. I remember meeting you, but that confirmed we first met in person at Skywalker Ranch.
Sam:
Man, that's an amazing tactic. I got to do that more often to try to track back [crosstalk]
Elana:
Yeah, it's like my CRM or something. I'm like, "Gosh, when was the last time [crosstalk]"
Sam:
... and connections. And I remember that picture. It's funny that you mentioned that picture, because I remember Cindy told me, "You'll get more comments on this picture on..." I think we were talking specifically about one social media platform. I don't need to advertise for anybody in particular, but she said, "You'll get more comments on this platform for this picture than anything." And she was right, that set off an explosion of comments from people. So that's funny that you mentioned that picture. Yeah.
Elana:
It was funny. It was almost eight years ago, so fast forward eight years, you have been up to a lot. I'm going to read a little bit of your bio for our audience. Before we met, you obviously studied at Brown University. I didn't know this about you, but you taught at a maximum-security unit of a juvenile prison. And our listeners know, for me incarceration is something near and dear, especially as it relates to education, to my heart. My father was incarcerated for most of my childhood, so I know what it does to communities and families. And I know that this is a broken cycle that's incredibly prejudiced and injustice and all the things. So I am excited to talk to you about your experience, and I know that you weave that a little bit through the book, too.
So Sam, he speaks internationally about education, race, culture, systems design. He has built and directed programs with and for young people affected by incarceration. He leads design strategy projects for organizations throughout the country. I could go on and on, but you also are a thought leader, and you have writings that appear in education publications such as Education Week, The 74, Voices in Urban Education. People have written about you in Edutopia, which is where we had that connection, too. So we'll put Sam's bio in our Show Notes because it is long and lengthy, and you have been doing so much good work, and I'm just excited to dive into your book and all of the things with you. So our audience today, we're going to be talking about his latest book that he co-authored, Creative Hustle: Blaze Your Own Path and Make Work That Matters.
So if you don't know what that means, it's okay. Come on this ride, because you will not regret it. But I do believe it may just help some of you identify and navigate your own creative path from your own unique gifts. I think sometimes we forget, we all have different skill sets and gifts, and what you could be doing that leads you to a life that does things that matter. So whether you're an educational professional in EdTech or you're an educator in this way-finding moment to your why, I really hope you'll stick around, because this is going to be a very inspiring conversation for you.
So welcome. I know that's a very lengthy intro, Sam, but I'm just so excited to have you on. Welcome to All Things Marketing and Education.
Sam:
Thank you. You've got me excited about myself. I'm like, "Wow, that sounds great. I'd love to meet him." No, thank you. Maybe we can start traveling together, and you can hype me up and hype the crowd up. All the stuff, all the bullet points are true. But wow, the way that you're talking about my career makes me feel excited about it and excited to talk with you about how it's all... I really appreciate your point.
First of all, thanks for sharing that piece of your personal story about your connection to what incarceration does to, as you said, communities and families. And I appreciate that you noticed the way that part of my work is woven throughout this book. Because while it's not at all a book specifically for educators or folks in the education sector, that is present, and my experiences working in the prison, as you mentioned, and working in education more broadly throughout the past few decades, are definitely present even in a book that is not explicitly about this sector. So thank you for seeing that. I feel seen in you making that note, which was off the script of my bio but about your experience engaging with the text.
Elana:
Yeah. And I think that the way that it comes through is the way that it's accessible and you highlight stories of anybody. It just feels empowering in that way where it's not... There's so many little nuances that I could just feel and see, so I appreciate that, and it came from somebody with an inclusive [inaudible 00:06:00]
Sam:
Thank you. It was a big intention. So you mentioned earlier that I co-authored the Creative Hustle, and I want to shout out Olatunde Shibomihim, who's my co-author on the book and brother in this work, and just somebody who I feel incredibly lucky to get to collaborate with both on the book and on a bunch of other work that we're doing in the world. It was really important to him and I that we do what you just described, which is sharing stories of a really diverse group of folks. And I mean that in terms of race and gender. I mean that in terms of A, point in career. And I mean that in terms of what types of creative endeavors, so redefining how people might think of what a creative career or life is to include the arts for sure, filmmaking, photography, those sort of things, but also music, but also politics, community organizing, cooking, really expanding how it's often talked about.
And also who gets the light shone on them when it comes to these books and stories about folks who are just incredibly entrepreneurially savvy in addition to their creative brilliance. And far too often, the books, the spotlights we see are pretty narrow in terms of focusing on mostly white, mostly men, and mostly folks who that entrepreneurial brilliance has played out in a pretty narrow business lane. And we really wanted to blow all that up and expand the conversation. So thank you for seeing and appreciating that.
Elana:
No problem. So why don't we start a little bit higher up? Your book is titled Creative Hustle, but let's start with creativity, because in education we've talked about it a lot. Sometimes we don't necessarily have the recipe that helps foster it quite right. There's definitely thought leaders like Sir Ken Robinson, rest in peace, Tony Wagner, that they all talk about these types of how we should start thinking about creativity and fostering it and creating that confidence around creativity and education. But you talk about why most people become less able to be creative or less able to claim it as their identity as they get older. Maybe you do want to talk about your definition of creativity and how maybe we can all frame it differently. Because if you ask me if I'm a creative person, I really scrutinize myself and go, "Meh, maybe a couple of fingers up."
Sam:
Yeah. I think that it gets... Maybe this word is too dramatic and too violent, but it gets beaten out of many of us, unfortunately, through our schooling a lot of times, and also in careers where we're sent messages sometimes explicitly, sometimes implicitly that our creativity is not needed or welcome, or it is but only in a very specific lane, if that makes sense. So depending on what you're studying or what your job is, you might get the message that within this particular small area, we really want you to be creative, but we don't want your ideas about other things. If you show up with your guitar, that's not part of the plan here. And I think that one of the problems, not the only problem in our school system when it comes to fostering and encouraging creativity, is the way in which the arts have largely been pushed out over the last several decades.
And again, that's not the only way for folks to develop our creative muscles, but certainly it's a rich area when it comes to developing and sustaining and sharing creativity. And unfortunately, we've seen a de-prioritization of arts education in... I was going to say public education, that's the area I work in the most, but I'm guessing it's possibly true in private education as well, at least in some cases. And it's really unfortunate, because I think having a strong arts education starting at a really young age and up through our education system, our school system, would be really helpful in fostering us all having creativity and bringing it to the world. And I think one of the reasons... Just going back to that phrase I said about it being beaten out of us, I think one of the reasons that happens is it's risky because if we think creatively, we start to question the boxes that we're put in, we start to question the systems that we're a part of. We start to think, "Well, couldn't there be a better way to do this?"
That would be any number of things, more just, more fun, more beautiful. And that's threatening to folks who benefit from the systems that we exist within now. So I don't mean to phrase it as an intentional conspiracy theory exactly, but I think it's natural that folks who are benefiting from the way things are lean on the scale to say, "Well, let's not mix it up too much. We'd love to see some new ideas and a little innovation, but not so much that it upsets the way that we've been doing business here." And so for those of us who feel really committed to re-imagining entire systems like the education system, it's imperative that we build those muscles.
It's imperative that we encourage each other to think more and more boldly and creatively to bring our imagination into this work and say, "What could look really different? What would we have to do to get to that world that would look really different and better in whatever ways we define that term?" So I think that there is some ways in which constraints are put on it, and part of what Tunde and I are trying to do in this book, is encourage everyone to push against those constraints.
Elana:
Yeah. And it's so needed right now in all aspects of not only education, but when you graduate, what do you do with your life? From a hiring perspective, I need thinkers like that. I need thinkers to say, "What if we did this?" And in fact I expect it, because we're in this world of ever-changing in social media, and marketing, and education is changing and upside down. And we saw hints of that even in the pandemic with the K-12 education system. So I know we could talk about that topic forever, but let's dive a little deeper into your book here. And we talked a little bit about what creativity is and how it diminishes over time with people, but what does it mean to be a creative hustler in your book? And why is it important? And how do you become a creative hustler?
Sam:
Yeah. I think Tunde and I understood how fraught the word hustle was going to be, and we talk about it in the book right at the beginning. We say, "Hustle means a lot of things, it's a '70s dance move. It's a con or getting over on someone. It's this working really hard mentality." We both come from hip-hop culture, where it often has a pretty positive connotation; to have hustle means ambition, essentially, and willing to work for something, being willing to work for something. So I think that we were mostly channeling that notion of hustle. For us, it felt important to put the word with creative, because if creativity is about imagination, seeing things in new ways, all of those pieces we were just talking about, we wanted to get to the rubber meets the road part of putting those ideas into action. So marrying that creative thinking and way of being in and viewing the world, with applying it and starting to make change in our own lives, in our communities and in the world around us.
Elana:
And interestingly, at LCG, we just had our first team retreat, and one of the things we did is the Clifton Strengths test, where it identifies different strengths within yourselves. And when I heard you talking, just because that was recent, it was more of it's marrying different, more creative types of strengths. I was strong in ideation, for example, so ideation but also with more of execution. There's some people that just say, "Just tell me what to do, and I'm really good at figuring it out and doing it efficiently." But it's marrying those two, right? So the ideation, maybe a little bit of strategic because that requires a lot of creativity too, but that's the best of both worlds.
Sam:
Yeah, and it's a lot to ask of ourselves. And so part of why we wanted to share stories of inspiring folks who find that balance, and some tools and activities to help people, is because it's a lot. It's a lot to ask ourselves to both be creative and coming up with new ideas and ways of being in the world, and then at the same time operationalizing those. So I think it's important that we have patience and grace with ourselves and each other as we try to do that. Probably some aspects of that come more naturally, as you're talking about, with those strength-finder analyses, audits, tests, whatever they are. They can help us maybe see where we naturally gravitate and where we want to do a little more exercise and building up our muscles. But just want to acknowledge, it's a lot that we're trying to get ourselves and our readers and our students to do something that's pretty hard. And that's why we thought it was worth digging into and putting a lot of effort into how to use words and images and activities to surface some of the ways there.
Elana:
I'm going to pause, because it looks like God is shining a [inaudible 00:16:42] down on me or something.
Sam:
Pretty striking visual you got going on there.
Elana:
Jordan, just pause for a sec so I can... I don't think you can actually... [inaudible 00:16:53] This might be a little better. Maybe a little. Better.
Sam:
It looks good until the sun moves and then it'll [crosstalk]
Elana:
Okay. I'm going to pick up right here, Jordan.
So Sam, I really love this book. I'm going to show it for the people seeing a video clip, but most of you will just be able to say, "Wow. Elana says it's a beautifully designed book." It obviously should be, because it's in partnership with the Stanford d.school, but it's small. I am hard on books, too. And it's got plastic coating; it's got a great bookmarker in there. It's beautifully designed in the chapters, it's easy to read, full of color and vibrancy. So I just want to say that for people that can't see it visually, it's a really cool book. And even for those of you that say, "I don't read books," it makes it easy to read a book, to be honest. But while we can't go through all of the chapters, I know that when I was reading it, I was like, "Oh, this chapter would be good for our audience, this chapter..." And we started talking about it before the show too.
But I'd like to touch on a couple of them, and it is designed in three sections. So you have three sections, one, two, and three, and then there's four-ish chapters in each section? Right?
Sam:
Mm-hmm.
Elana:
So within section one, you talk about establishing your code. And you have chapters like Principles Matter, Discover Who You Are Then Show Others, Protect Your Peace, Build Courage, Live In Creativity. And gosh, I don't know how we pick one to talk about, or a couple, but what story do you think you want to share that might be salient to our audience in section one?
Sam:
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the constraint there. Ooh, it's hard. I'm in love with all of these stories and all of these people that we had the privilege of talking with to write these chapters. And I should shout out to all the people. We talked to a lot of people that for one reason or another it didn't fit in this particular book. As you mentioned, it's a pretty small book. We had serious constraints on word count, page numbers, all of that. So just amazing folks that we got to talk to as we were digging into what does it mean to be a creative hustler? And then you mentioned that this section, the first section is about establishing your code. What does that mean? How do folks who we admire as creative hustlers, how do they do that? So many amazing stories beyond even the three that you're looking at right there.
So would love to just shout out the three people, Christopher Squint-Sandifer, Aisha Curry, and David TC Ellis. I think it makes sense to dig into David TC Ellis' story a bit, because this is an education podcast and community. And TC is an educator, and just somebody who I've known and admired for a long time. And one of the really cool things about getting to work on this particular chapter is that I actually wrote a book about TC and the school that he started in St. Paul, Minnesota 11 years ago. So my first book Hip-Hop Genius, talked about the High School for Recording Arts. That book is an extremely different kind of book. It has none of the visual excitement that you were just describing. It's a bunch of words on pages. It's much more of a nerdy book for folks who really think about education and/or hip-hop, and are interested in thinking about how the two can, should, and already are influencing each other.
And I never felt the format of that book captured David TC Ellis' creative hustle. This is someone who really struggled in school himself as a student, dropped out, left school, ended up finding his way into an alternative program, had all sorts of careers in his young life, really interesting, diverse set of hustles basically that he was engaged in, and wound up getting a recording contract through Prince with Warner Brothers, and had this career as a musical artist. And then brought all of the creativity and chutzpah, to use a word from the Yiddish language, to his work as an educator. So after recording an album, recording with all these amazing artists, he made his way back to the Twin Cities, opened a recording studio, started meeting young people who were more excited to spend time in his recording studio than they were at school.
And he saw an opportunity to engage them through the studio. And had, again, the creativity and the confidence and the courage, as I think that's the word we use in the chapter title, to say, "I don't have a degree in education, school leadership, or anything like that, but I know what I'm doing. I know how to engage the young folks here, and I know how to bring people in to do the parts I don't know how to do." So he hooked up with his former high school principal, and they started this program out of his recording studio. And so for him, that courage and that confidence to take something on like that has bestowed a massive blessing on a community for the past 22 years, that he has run the High School for Recording Arts in the Twin Cities. And hundreds and hundreds, I don't know, thousands, I've lost track of the number of young people who traditional schools were failing to serve.
The schools were failing, not the young people, who've been able to come to this school, to this program and thrive and graduate and go on to do great things in the world. And this school has now been influencing educators from all over the country and the world, who come and visit and take inspiration or read the book or find out about it in any number of ways. I just was out there just less than a year ago; they hosted a big Deeper Learning Conference there. I think it was the first Deeper Learning Conference as part of the series that has run for years out of High Tech High in San Diego. This one in Minnesota was the first one outside of the San Diego location.
So just incredible what TC has done, and his clarity of how that creative courage that he developed as a young artist has pierced through his entire career as an educator. And seeing the incredible outcomes from that, it felt like a really important story to share and to get into the weeds. All the chapters are short, but even in that short amount of time, to try to get down to what were some of those early lessons that he had, so that we can almost as readers borrow them even if we weren't there with Prince having that experience. We can metabolize them into our own constitution as worth composing ourselves and saying, "How can I channel some of that in what I do?"
Elana:
Yeah. And that is such an inspiring story. I've followed the High School for Recording Arts quite a bit, and they've been recently covered with some other partners like Soundtrap and whatnot. And I just walked away going, "Wow, that's a school." And when you really think about unboxing and thinking outside of the box, that really defines it. And I was thinking about some of our other podcast guests that we've had and might resonate with our audience, is we've interviewed people like educator Lisa Highfill. And she, during the pandemic, got tasked to redesign a school entirely, which is so awesome, a virtual academy, what a school looks like a hundred percent virtual, not pandemic driven. How do we make sure it's inclusive and fun and engaging? So we'll put that episode in the Show Notes for you folks, but I want you to come away with there's all sorts of different type of creative endeavors, too. There's an everyday educator like someone inspiring like Lisa Highfill, there's someone like a Jose Vilson who's really making math accessible and fun and talking about equity and justice in math.
And that inspires me. So you can be just teaching your subject and infuse this creative hustle, too. And I think about people like Lily Jones, who we've interviewed really early on in our podcast, who said, "Hey, I love teaching, but what else?" And she had that bravery to say, "What do I really love doing? Let me start doing curriculum for other brands. Let me start doing this and that." And now she has a whole community of educators that she teaches to create curriculum and do a side hustle or eventually transition out of the classroom. So I just wanted to give some other examples. We'll put all of those in the Show Notes too for you folks if you're interested, too. But there's so many flavors of that. When you were saying build courage, live in creativity, I was just reminiscing of all these beautiful people that I'm lucky to know.
Sam:
Yeah. Yeah, I love that. That's how Tunde and I felt, and one of the things that we talked about when we were designing the class Creative Hustle, which the book stemmed out of, was how the people that we know and the access that we've had to their stories and their wisdom have been one of our secret superpowers. We feel like, to the extent we've been able to do anything in the world, it's so based on that inspiration and that wisdom. And so one of the things we wanted to do with the class and with the book was crack that open and just share it with a lot more folks. And it was an excuse for us to dive deeper with some of the people who have inspired us the most and with some intentionality.
So maybe we heard some of these stories from them over a meal or a beverage or a walk or something, but to go back to them and say, "Actually, I'm trying to write about this now, and I'm trying to understand how that value, where that came from in your life and your work. Not so I can copy it, but just so I can better understand it and see where it shows up in myself," and that sort of thing. So I totally feel you on that. We're so lucky. Just folks you were just naming that you get to be in conversation with them and learn with them and grow with them. And so, thinking about how we crack that open and share that with a lot more people, and for you that's happening, at least one way that's happening is through a podcast. And for us, at least one way it's happening is through this book.
Elana:
Through the book, yeah. So section one really feels like a foundation type of, "Know you. Establish your code. What are your principles? Discover who you are. Build that courage." But then we get into section two of the book, and it's about knowing your network. And it's got chapters like People Matter, Design You With Others, Receive Better So You Can Give Better, and Accelerate Through Collaboration. So I feel like we're building on that foundation in this one about some really core lessons. Is there one that sticks out in this area that you think would be really appropriate or inspiring for our audience?
Sam:
It's so hard. I feel like they all... Each section really. I'm not going to try to make it sound like this is the... These are really all worth engaging, and you don't have to buy the book. Of course, it's great if you do, it's beautiful, all that good stuff. But you can get it at the library, you can do the audiobook, you can do it on ebook, whatever. But these are such good stories. They're such good stories. Maybe Sadayi's story that you just mentioned, Receive Better So You Can Give Better. I feel like that's an important one for this audience and for a lot of folks, because we did this activity, actually, when we taught the Creative Hustle class that I learned from my colleague Minu Sing. And it comes from the Trobriand Islands, and this notion of a Kula Ring, but the way that Minu taught it to us it was called Reciprocity Ring.
And we asked our students to put up some things that they want or want to do, and then help each other find ways. So let's say I said I wrote up, "I want to learn Portuguese." And you might write, put up a note next to that and say, "I actually speak fluent Portuguese, and I'd be happy to have coffee and speak in Portuguese with you every couple of weeks." Or something. And one of the pieces of feedback we've gotten as we've done this with students is it's much easier to do the second part than the first part. It's easier to offer something to someone than it is to actually write down and put up publicly something that... A request, something that we want. It's a really powerful exercise, by the way. I highly recommend doing it.
But I think to that point, that's part of why the chapter about Sadayi and her story is so powerful, because of the way that she modeled receiving help so that she could help others. And she tells a few stories in the chapter about people who helped her at crucial points in her life. She had a guidance counselor tell her in high school that she could not get funding to go to college. And there was someone at her church who intervened and let her know that wasn't true, and helped point her in the direction of how she could pursue resources to go to college. And so she turned around and used that knowledge and that inspiration to help thousands of students who are undocumented find the path to post-secondary education.
It's just so powerful and she's so clear about the way that being vulnerable and receiving help has allowed her at multiple points in her career to turn around and open up doors for other folks. And it's a really powerful reminder to me that having that mix of vulnerability and, I think, again, ambition is a really powerful blend. And she talks about going into tech competitions, going up against really intimidating teams of designers and speaking from her heart and being raw and being vulnerable, and trusting her audience to hold that with her, and the amazing things that have happened in her career as a result of that.
So, super powerful story, super powerful person. And I feel extremely lucky. This is someone who I didn't know prior to working on this project. And Tunde actually said when we were talking about this section, "We have to talk to Sadayi." And I'm very grateful for that, because we've become friends, and I've just learned a tremendous amount, and I feel really excited about what we were able to capture even in the relatively few pages we had to share her story. We were able to hit a few really interesting points of her career from the help she's given thousands of young people in going to college, to some really powerful work she did right at the start of the pandemic around helping to make sure that many, many families in the area that she lives and works were able to maintain their housing, even in a really challenging time. So just chock full of inspiration.
Elana:
And I love how you framed the story in the beginning. It started with a no; it started like, "You can't do this. This is the reality."
Sam:
And it would've ended there for so many people. Do you know what I mean?
Elana:
Yes.
Sam:
And they wouldn't have been wrong. Why would I not trust this guidance counselor? Yeah. Sorry, I got... Yes, totally.
Elana:
No worries. Yeah, I feel like our audience of educators have taught "No" a lot. They're said, "No, you can't do this. And teach within this, and do all of this." And a lot of the times, you have to pick your battles in education and figure out where you ultimately just say, "No. I'm doing it this way, and just trust me this will be better." There's that. But then on the EdTech world, they're a hundred percent founded in breaking the "no's." Like, "You tell me it can be this way. Let me show you this piece of tech that can completely flip it upside down." So I feel like really...
Sam:
Just for the EdTech folks in the crowd, Sadayi's story does involve creating some EdTech as well, so it may be particularly interesting for those folks to read about what she has built.
Elana:
Yeah. And I just thought, too, from a personal level, if you don't model receiving, your team won't be able to do that, and it won't create that reciprocity. And I love that you receive better so you can actually give better, and it's so much harder than you think. Like you said, about being able to receive. And with educators, I'm talking to you folks that really have trouble asking, because in general the system has isolated you. You shut your door and you say, "I guess I got this." And every time, sometimes you might ask, you've maybe had a bad experience but how can we form... In education, we call them PLNs, professional learning networks or PLCs that are based in schools. How can we create some type of community that you can feel safe enough to ask? Because it's so healthy for growth and development.
Sam:
Yeah, absolutely. For me just personally, that's been a part of my maturing, I think, in my career, is realizing that's not... I don't know, an act of weakness but an act of strength to be able to ask for help in those ways to an individual, to a group publicly. So I totally feel and appreciate that. And that's one of the things I love about this particular chapter of the book.
Elana:
Yeah. As a leader, you're not going to win if you say, "I got it all." And, "Don't help me. I got it all." You really have to model vulnerability and embrace that, "I don't know it all. Please, if you have an idea, please help me. I need help." I do that all the time when I'm trying to navigate this agency because it's a crazy unknown world. "If you have an idea, please help me. Hey, I need help with this. I'm not very good at this." We all have our strengths, and so I love that brought that out.
Section three. So now we're getting into it. I feel like it's almost like a deeper dive into this pyramid, but section three is about creating your rituals. And this will resonate with educators and EdTech professionals alike, but just really anybody. I looked at all of these and I'm like, "Oh my God, I need to re-read every single chapter." But you have things about Practice Matters, Do Your Research And Your Me Search, You Turn Losses Into Learning, and a whole chapter on that, Don't Let Productivity Kill Your Creativity, and I love how you ended with that one, too. But if we had to talk and go a little deeper into one of the points here for our audience, what do you think would be the most valuable?
Sam:
Well, thanks for pointing out the intention that we had in ending on this lesson around not letting productivity kill creativity, because I think it's so important. And I think we owe it to our readers after putting hustle in the title to end on a note of saying, "Yes, there's a need to act, to move, to get stuff out into the world. There's also a need to slow down to take care of yourself, to take care of those around you, and to let others take care of you." And so that's what we talk about in the chapter about not letting productivity kill creativity. And that chapter focuses on Tessa Aragones, who is a marketing executive, has had a really impressive career. And shares with us some personal rituals that she has that help her to not be so focused on productivity and shipping product or messages or whatnot, that she doesn't do the regenerative self-care work that keeps her going, that keeps her ideas fresh, that keeps her excited to do the work that she does.
So talking with her mom every morning is one of those rituals, physical fitness, just these things that are really important balances. And I think sometimes it's positioned as antithesis. It's like, "Either I'm being productive, or I'm doing these things." And I think part of what Tessa helps us see in her chapter and in the stories she shared is the way those things feed each other. And that it's not like I'm taking time away from my creative endeavors to do these things. It's like I'm doing these things and that is feeding and amplifying the creative endeavors, so I need that reminder. I felt like most of the people that I talk with, their problem isn't that they're not doing enough. It's probably that they're doing too much. It's said often in the design world, great design is as much about what you keep out as what you put in. And I think that's true with our creative hustles. It's how do we slow down, focus on the important pieces, and build rituals in our lives that are regenerative?
Elana:
Yeah, well said. I feel like for those of you that feel guilty taking a walk or going and getting your special treat that may require a walk, or taking a longer shower, or making time for a workout, these are all things that I love that you say it fuels this cycle. If you do that, you become potentially a better educator in the classroom. Maybe you have ideas. My team goes, "Hey, this idea was in the shower." And I could tell it's... Or, "I got this idea when I was walking." You don't tend to do it when you're staring at a screen, or you're staring in a classroom for eight hours plus a day. And the way you framed it was beautiful because it lets go of guilt.
Sam:
Yeah. Yeah. No, like I said, I need it as much as anyone that particular lesson, that reminder. And I'm grateful to Tessa for it. And I think it's a really important note to end. We start the book with Squint's story talking about how to center his principles, his values, every day, all day. And we end with Tessa's story about this. And to me those are such important notes to start from our values and with that balance, and taking care of ourselves, and finding the space to both recharge and also to find inspiration. What could be more important than those things?
Elana:
Yes, a hundred percent. So we navigated throughout this entire book. I feel like we haven't done it justice, because you really have to read it. I loved all the chapters. I loved how you did focus on individual stories. And like you said, they were different types of stories with different backgrounds. And wow, we're now talking about cooking. That was really inspiring for me. And I think for all of you out there, know that there will be a story that just unequivocally just inspires you and go, "Yes, I'm doing this."
And because Sam is an educator, in his book, he allowed some dotted lines and says, "Okay, let's put this into action." Let's not just get you inspired and then you go zone out on a Netflix show. Let's do something with it. And at the end of the book, you have two bigger activities which I love, and I wanted to print them out and do them with our team, too, internally here. But do you want to talk a little bit about how you tried to put some of this into action for people that are like, "Okay, all of this resonated with me, but how do I get started with this?"
Sam:
Yeah, for sure. The book began as a class that Tunde and I taught, and it was half Stanford students and half students from the organization that Tunde co-founded and leads called Street Code Academy in East Palo Alto. So the book, it came out of an educational experience that we were designing. And part of that experience was this activity that we called Gifts To Goals. So we asked people to think about what are your gifts, and those might be things that have always come easily or naturally to you, or they might be things that you just for some reason feel compelled to work really hard at, even though they don't come that easily to you. It doesn't mean they're easy, but what are the things that you bring to the world where you feel like you really bring value to your community, to yourself, to the people around you? And then goals are what is the change that you hope to move in the world? What would you like to see happen?
And then those are these two ends, and we build a bridge throughout the book, each of those sections we just talked through is a lane of that bridge, principles being the first. Those are those values we talked about in TC's story. People, your network, your community is the second lane, that was Sadayi's story that we talked about. And then practices, what are your routines and rituals that help you move from your gifts to goals is that third section where we talked about Tessa. And so we actually, in the class and then in the book, try to help you build that bridge. At the beginning, we ask you to think about what are those gifts, what are those goals. And then at the end of each section, we ask you to fill in really on a piece of paper, and we talk about how to frame the paper so that it all fits, and how are these pieces going to help you move across.
And we've had these amazing experiences with students and folks who have done workshops with us, sending us pictures of these up over their desk, over their bed, and talking about how it's helped them through job transitions, through life moments. And so we really just wanted to pay that forward in the book. We just were like, "Let's not make it purely a passive experience of taking these stories in. Let's ask." So actually every chapter ends with a pretty specific prompt of an activity, but they're all feeding into that larger flow from Gifts To Goals that I was just describing. So obviously, you can pick up the book and just read and not do those pieces, but they're there. And it's been really... I think, to me, the most gratifying part of having the book out in the world has been the pictures people have sent of their Gifts To Goals worksheets that they've built at home, or just them telling me this particular prompt was extremely helpful at the end of this particular chapter.
We really did have this aspiration that this would be an engaged reading experience. And so, hearing that for at least some of our readers, it is playing out exactly in that way. And I love your idea of doing it as a team. That's how we started with doing it as a team in a class, so I know that works. The bigger question mark for me was like, "Will it work for individuals sitting at home with the book?" And we did prototype and try that out as we were working on the book, asking folks, friends, family, former students, "Can you try this at home and tell us is this landing? Is this working?" So we had some reason to believe it would, but it's different when someone just picks it up off a shelf and gives it a try.
Elana:
Yeah, I know in the field of education and also workplaces, it's not uncommon to have book clubs where you do talk through it. And there's a gift of someone sharing their vulnerability with others that you get to know each other on a deeper level than rather a transactional, "Okay, let's lesson plan." Or, "You do this marketing for me." And you can also hold each other accountable a little. And saying it out loud to others is powerful, right?
Sam:
Yeah, absolutely. You're giving me inspiration that at some point it would be fun for Tunde and I to offer an online cohort and say like, "Hey, anybody who wants to come and do this together --"
Elana:
Yes. It just gets --
Sam:
We're doing some workshop, like an event [crosstalk]
Elana:
We need some [inaudible 00:45:16] around that, right?
Sam:
Yeah. Yeah, totally. That would be really cool.
Elana:
Yeah. So we could talk about this book literally for a couple more hours. We can go into all the chapters. But I hope for the listeners, you've just got a little taste of what it would be like to read this book. Sam is also an inspiring individual from the long bio I talked about. So we'll tell you at the end of the podcast how you can follow him and everything he's doing in education in the world of design and equity and justice. But Sam, one of the questions before we get into the real outro -- which is really sad, no more talking about fun things, creativity -- but one of the questions that we like to ask our audience or our guests when they come on is just you personally, and every day is somewhat challenging in this world of, gosh, unknown.
In the world of education, it's incredibly challenging. In the world of leading, you're doing book tours and all the things and teaching. How do you refuel yourself on those days that you were just feeling like you're hitting your head against the wall? What works for you? Some of our guests do physical things, some of them read, some of them watch, or family, or this. What gets you the most? And I know there's so many things, but I find inspiration just listening to others and what they do.
Sam:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, first of all, I feel very much like a work in progress. And so I feel like I'm always figuring that out, and I don't have one set formula. A couple of routines I have, I think in the book I mentioned this idea of morning pages that I got inspired by another book The Artist's Way. And I've hacked it a little bit to make it morning page instead of pages plural, because I have found my journaling practice has gone up and down over my life. And my little hack that I might offer to others is, I think constraint can be really valuable, so I limit myself to one page every morning. It's a big page, I have a big... Bigger than eight-and-a-half by 11 notebook, but I stop when that page is done. And I think that constraint is part of what allows me to really stick with it.
Because if I wrote too much, I think the next day I'd be like, "Oh, I don't have time for all that." Or, "I already said everything I have to say." Or that sort of thing. And then I'd get out of practice, and that, I think that's what's happened to me at other points in my life. So this has really been effective to just do the page. Similarly with physical activity, and this is much more recent that I've been experimenting with this. But keeping it short, I have a short morning routine of sorts, stretching and strength-building that I've been able to keep much more consistent recently because I don't go too hard, so I'm not super sore the next day. So I'm not like, "Oh man, I don't have time today." It's like, "No, you do, because you're keeping it brief."
So I think those are a couple of the things lately that I've been really working on a daily discipline around. And then, I would just add the family stuff is so important, being surrounded by and prioritizing time with people I love who inspire me, younger folks, elders in particular, but also people in my age range, feeds me beyond anything I can put into words. So really making sure that I'm prioritizing that, too.
Elana:
Yeah, and I love that you were the first person to talk about constraints. And I think that's appropriate, because your book is constrained intentionally, you have activities that are constrained. And it forces you, because at the end of day, it's not about you journaled five pages once a month, it's about consistent small behaviors. And that is such a good way to get your toddler brain to say, "Oh, you don't have time." Or, "Oh, that was so hard last time." Nope, you're just two minutes every day. Go. Go. I love it.
Sam:
Yeah, thank you for the questions.
Elana:
You're teaching me, so thank you so much for joining us, Sam. For all of our listeners that want to get in touch with you, how can they follow along with your journey? What's the best way to get in touch with you and the work that you do?
Sam:
Yeah, thanks for asking. Creativehustle.org is the website for this book. Hiphopgenius.org is the website for my first book. And we put out a ten-year anniversary edition last year with co-authors. K12lab.org is a link that will give a lot of information about what we're doing at the d.school in K-12 education. My personal website is samseidel.is, and that has links to a lot of other things that I've been working on. And then I'm on some social media platforms @Husslington, H-U-S-S-L-I-N-G-T-O-N. So, look forward to being in touch on any of those platforms, and feel free to hit me up. I think there's contact links definitely on my personal site, and I think on various other ones of the ones I just rattled off. So I'd love to hear from you folks.
Elana:
And for those of you that might be running or in the grocery store or on the go listening to this podcast, know that we'll put that all in our Show Notes, too.
Sam:
Thank you.
Elana:
Our Show Notes, Sam, if you have any additional activities or resources or links, we'll put all of those in there as well to really hit the point home. Because what I do want you to walk away with, at least, is just a pause and say, "Am I wayfinding to things that fuel me? Am I doing things that matter? Am I allowing time to really discover who I am?" And just infuse some type of creativity in your day-to-day. So you talked about different ways to do that. There's so many inspiring stories in the book. I think this will resonate for anybody thinking about, "Gosh, may be a K-12 educator now, but is there a different role in education I want to play? If I'm in EdTech, holy moly, do I need this book?" Especially that last chapter around just balance and productivity and rituals and all the things. So I hope this was valuable to our audience. Please let me know in social or in the Show Notes or anything like that, because I'd love to have more inspiring authors like Sam on the show.
So thank you again everybody for listening. The Show Notes that I've been talking about, you can access them at leoniconsultinggroup.com/37, or you can just follow us on our socials on Twitter or on LinkedIn, and we'll always be promoting the episode. And especially when this launches, we'll be promoting it up and down everywhere around. Sam, you're going to get annoyed with us.
Sam:
I look forward to it.
Elana:
Thank you everybody. Thank you so much, Sam, for spending your time and sharing your advice and your wisdom with my audience. And we will see you all next time on All Things Marketing and Education. Take care.
Sam:
Thank you.
[End of recorded material 00:52:20]
Elana Leoni, Host
Elana Leoni has dedicated the majority of her career to improving K-12 education. Prior to founding LCG, she spent eight years leading the marketing and community strategy for the George Lucas Educational Foundation, where she grew Edutopia’s social media presence exponentially to reach over 20 million education change-makers every month.
Sam Seidel, Guest
Sam Seidel is the K12 Lab Director of Strategy + Research at the Stanford d.school and co-author (with Olatunde Sobomehin) of Creative Hustle: Blaze Your Own Path and Make Work That Matters (Ten Speed Press, 2022). His previous books include Hip-Hop Genius: Remixing High School Education (Rowman & Littlefield, 2011) and Hip Hop Genius 2.0 (Rowman & Littlefield, 2022). Sam speaks internationally about design, race, culture, systems, and education, and has taught in a variety of settings, from a public first-grade classroom to Ivy League graduate programs. He has built and directed programs with and for young people affected by incarceration, and has led design strategy projects for organizations throughout the country. Sam’s writing appears in publications such as Education Week, The 74, Voices in Urban Education, and UnBoxed. A graduate of Brown University, as well as a Scholar-in-Residence at Columbia University's Institute for Urban and Minority Education, and a Community Fellow at the Rhode Island School of Design, Sam is always learning.
About All Things Marketing and Education
What if marketing was judged solely by the level of value it brings to its audience? Welcome to All Things Marketing and Education, a podcast that lives at the intersection of marketing and you guessed it, education. Each week, Elana Leoni, CEO of Leoni Consulting Group, highlights innovative social media marketing, community-building, and content marketing strategies that can significantly increase brand awareness, engagement, and revenue.
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